The perils of immigration

(c) aguyiusedtoknow
There are a growing number of individuals becoming more and more irritated with political correctness, with counter intuitive discriminatory politicies and confliciting ideals of equality. Issues which are inflaming a potential conflict between the …

Submitted by David Gold on Friday, 31 July 2009View Comments

(c) aguyiusedtoknow

There are a growing number of individuals becoming more and more irritated with political correctness, with counter intuitive discriminatory politicies and confliciting ideals of equality. Issues which are inflaming a potential conflict between the white working classes and hardline Islamists. It’s something I’ve picked up on talking to people who seem very nice and reasonable on the outside. Your average Joes, individuals who have worked their whole lives, paid their taxes and kept on the right side of the law. Good, decent citizens. But citizens who aren’t, say, politically aware. One was a painter we recently had decorating our house. One day he launched into a random tirade about Muslims and how if there is a civil war, he’ll pick up a gun and fight them.

I know. Then just yesterday, speaking to a hard working 57 year old, who launched into a monologue rambling about how the only people the government helps are scroungers and immigrants.

Yeah, there is a problem here. Your decent, hard working individuals who aren’t politically aware, are in danger of being pushed to the extremes of parties such as the British National Party. Who do I blame? Honestly, its the fault of the government. They are so keen to pander to the politically correct ‘liberal’ wing of society that they have completely ignored the honest, hard working masses of tax payers who feel as though they suffer unfairly.

A realist approach must be adopted to offset the growing anger they feel. There is a growing fear about the changing demographic of this country. And it’s not just foreigners in general – it’s simply the nature and character of the country at heart. This is a Christian country, with a particular national persona, which many foreigners embrace and assimilate into.

You will find countless Europeans, South Africans, Americans, Australians, Muslims and Chinese in this country. They are welcome and make us a richer, better country. But there is a collision building between disenfranchised white workers and an ever more vocal extremist Muslim minority, who seek to impose their brand of Islam wherever possible. The murmurs about Shariah law have not gone away, and this is a huge problem. We cannot tiptoe around this issue with our politically correct hats on – numerous reports highlight the fact that approximately a quarter of Muslims are sympathetic to, or support, Al Qaeda. These are the people that are grating at the traditional working class workers.

The government has been painfully slow in reacting to this conflict. It is one which is currently simmering away, a few bubbles penetrating the surface, but at some stage if nothing is done, there will be a heated confrontation. It is a problem we ignore at our peril, and one which requires the government to take a harder line with fundamentalist Islam.

Decent muslims will never object to the firebrands in their community being sidetracked, as the case last week of Andrew Ibrahim showed, but marginalised these people must be. Ordinary, decent muslims are held back from integrating into society the way they should by the vocal extremist elements within them. This is the group who are most unwelcome in this country, and it is important that politicians make this clear. We cannot support a growing proportion of immigrants who support terrorists fundamentally opposed to the freedoms, liberty and justice that we have nurtured for hundreds of years. We need a zero tolerance policy, whereby any individual with a proven link or sympathy for a terrorist organisation is simply deported, without questions asked.

Those among the white working class who have a degree of racism in their heart are being radicalised, in precisely the same way we believe Muslims are when we go and wage wars in Iraq. We can take a harder line. Canada did not allow George Galloway to enter their country because he supports terrorist organisations. Yet Galloway strolls the halls of Parliament as if he is just another politician. He is not – giving money to terrorist groups is a criminal offence, of which he is guilty. Canada has the backbone to simply stand up for what is right. Our government needs the same attitude if it is to stave off the simmering conflict between these two volatile groups.

Mike Reddaway

"I never said he should be in prison I questioned why he was still serving as an MP when his actions are morally reprehensible."

Well in the qoutes below you accuse him of committing a criminal offence, being a criminal etc...

"Yet Galloway strolls the halls of Parliament as if he is just another politician. He is not – giving money to terrorist groups is a criminal offence, of which he is guilty."

and again

"George Galloway gave money to a terrorist group (Hamas). Ergo – breaking the law...Yet this is turned a blind eye to. Furthermore, he strolls Parliament as if he is just another MP – he is a criminal. An actual one. "

And Hamas are not listed as a terrorist group by the UK, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades are and the difference has been noted. Nothing is being turned a blind eye to, by the laws of this country he hasn't committed a crime

It sounds like you're trying him by the "court of public opinion"
MarcusCleaver

It seems to me that your own views David are only a more eloquent and carefully edited version of what your decorator thinks. It’s all too easy to sigh at the blatant racism espoused by these ‘average joes’ and to nod along for a few minutes but I have a lot more respect for those who challenge these people to justify their arguments. It is at this point that those who only minutes before were sure of their views, find themselves reeling desperately clinging to any argument they can lay their hands on. In my opinion, if we can destroy and ridicule their argument on a wider scale then we are most of the way to ruining the BNP. Much of the press seemed to do this in the recent European elections but it has to be conceded that the BNP fought a careful campaign and this was a major contributing factor to their success. Instead, the press normally tends to cultivate an atmosphere of fear and misinformation which helps parties like the BNP.

I’d like to also add that the words ‘liberal’ and ‘politically correct’ shouldn’t be placed together. Political correctness seeks to control people’s language and actions etc. This by its very nature is illiberal.

I also echo the comments made by others about George Galloway. I’d add though that you have yourself proved the problem with such a system; that it can be easily politicised. Someone says something you don’t like and you link them to terrorism and deport them, no questions asked. Goodbye George Galloway....and justice.
David Gold

Hamas is listed. The guy above who split the hairs about the different factions of Hamas which are listed, I accept that he has stated a fact and this is probably the case. I don't even wish to contest that. But how does that change anything? I never said he should be in prison - I questioned why he was still serving as an MP when his actions are morally reprehensible.
Mike Reddaway

I'd still like to know why he thinks Galloway should be in prison for funding a 'terrorist' organisation that isn't listed as such in this country...
efox

"We need a zero tolerance policy, whereby any individual with a proven link or sympathy for a terrorist organisation is simply deported, without questions asked"

Ah, is this what it means to uphold the "freedoms, liberty and justice that we have nurtured for hundreds of years"?
David Gold

Hannah...interesting response, in my desire to post something but lack of time to do so in much depth, I just want to point out that I am not inferring that either fundamentalist Islam causes nationalist racist fervour, or the other way around....I'm saying that the cause is the government's lack of decisiveness in tackling the issue. And it's just that it does seem that the government appear to do little to calm fears about fundamentalism, and this is an imbalance they need to address.

And yeah there is a fair point you make about immigration...retrospectively I have mangled the two topics a little admittedly, but I do stand by the general point of the article - that being that there is a dangerous subtext here in the growing conflict. Whilst both sides are reprehensible in their own ways, we must do something to counter the problem.

And Tom/Hannah...re the countless Europeans comment...did I really say that?! Oops...blunders happen!
Tom Hewitson

And just a small matter of housekeeping: “you will find countless Europeans… in this country”? Did you really say that?

I wondered how long it would be till someone noticed that...
Mike Reddaway

I'll agree with this first respondent and simply say there is a lot I disagree with in this article. On a factual point:

George Galloway gave money to a terrorist group (Hamas). Ergo – breaking the law. Yet this is turned a blind eye to. Furthermore, he strolls Parliament as if he is just another MP – he is a criminal. An actual one. Who would be guilty if tried by public law, rather than the ‘court of public opinion

I wouldn't say it was turned a blind eye to. In this country, Hamas itself is not actually proscribed as a terrorist organisation...so I'm not sure why the government would look to prosecute him? (This is not to debate whether in actuality it is or not, it is to draw attention to its current legal status). The U.S and E.U have proscribed them, yes, but in the U.K it is only the militant wing the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades that are actually designated as terrorist. You might say this is splitting hairs but it's similiar to the distinction between sinn fein and the IRA. I'm not fond of either Hamas or Galloway, but felt this should be pointed out.
Thom Loyd

I think part of the problem is that people on all sides delude themselves.

People talk about the history of freedom and liberty in Britain whilst ignoring the fact that we remain in a chronically unfree and illiberal society - where liberty does exist, in many cases it does not have a long history in this country (I'm thinking gay rights, women's rights etc).

And I could never get my head around people who talk about the Islamification of Britain whilst completely abandoning Christian ethics themselves; I've not read it, so I can't be sure, but I'm fairly confident the Bible doesn't suggest casual sex, drug use, and alcohol is the path to Paradise. I am fairly sure though that a lot the same people who complain about the erosion of British values quite enjoy a pint and a spliff from time to time.

Also, I've never understood the fundamental problem with incorporating elements of Sharia law into British law - it has some really positive bits. Animal rights and charity are surely things anybody can agree on? Obviously I'm not suggesting public stonings and banning women stepping out with men not in their immediate family.

I don't think we should have a zero-tolerance policy for most things, certainly not for people expressing views, whatever form they may take. Anyone who thinks differently is doing the extremists' jobs for them.
David Gold

"I don’t know, this article just seems to be a bit of a sop to a vocal, but small minority of fascistic nutjobs… Not to be rude, I just disagree. Quite a lot."

Well, I don't agree with those right wing nutjobs, it's just that they worry me, because them and the Muslim extremists will have a huge conflict if something is not done. But those white working classes need not be radicalised like this if the government just stood up to firebrand Islam once in a while. That's what irritates me.

Political Correctness has gone absolutely insane. Didn't you see that Avon and Somerset police are now giving headscarves to ALL officers who go into a Mosque? Come on now, that's ridiculous. I'm not against better relations with the Muslim community, but why do we have to tip toe around the extremist faction of this religion for fear of having a few trains blown up? It is beyond madness.

I wouldn't suggest everyone at the anti-Israel rally you talk about should be deported. But those who march shouting 'we are all Hezbollah/Hamas now' really have something to answer for. Showing public support for a terrorist organisation is downright stupid, illiberal, hypocritical and dangerous. That's marching in defence of a group who would happily strip women of their rights and send children out to be killed to win a PR war.

George Galloway gave money to a terrorist group (Hamas). Ergo - breaking the law. Yet this is turned a blind eye to. Furthermore, he strolls Parliament as if he is just another MP - he is a criminal. An actual one. Who would be guilty if tried by public law, rather than the 'court of public opinion'.

Furthermore, those anti-Israel rallies you allude to; one day supporters of Israel went to march in support of Israel, and Galloway encouraged a group of Palestinian supporters to break the agreement they had with police to leave half an hour prior to the Israel rally, and stay. He whipped up the mob into a frenzy on his loudspeaker and some of the mob threw things at the Israelis. Deservedly, eight were arrested. And Galloway was the one who incited it all.

Sunny Hundal is an extreme left wing nutjob, to be blunt about it, whose opinions I have absolutely no respect for. Contrast this with say, the opinions of other left wingers, such as Chris Huhme or Harriet Harman, whose opinions I don't agree with, but I respect greatly. This is for the following reason.

"Except, access to housing, which Montgomerie mentions, is not being swamped by asylum seekers despite the headlines. And the number of asylum seekers and immigrants in the UK is still way, way below popular perception. But rather than challenge these lies, the right happily gives into them."

See, Hundal's words are based on emotion, not reason. Therefore they are irrational. There is no sound logic to them, other than they support his bias. There is no substance, no evidence to back up his counter claims.

Further, there are Jewish courts in Britain, that rule on Jewish issues, such as divorce etc. Those courts do not pose an alternative to British jurisdiction and Jews have never called for their adoption in the UK. Contrast this with the beliefs of a Muslim minority, as you can see in a poll carried out in 2006, which concluded the following.

"Four out of 10 British Muslims want sharia law introduced into parts of the country, a survey reveals today.
The ICM opinion poll also indicates that a fifth have sympathy with the "feelings and motives" of the suicide bombers who attacked London last July 7, killing 52 people"

Speaks for itself, doesn't it?
Matt Wood

Oh for god's sake.

Sorry. I messed up on the HTML.
What I meant to say...

"Yeah, there is a problem here. Your decent, hard working individuals who aren’t politically aware"

What does 'politically aware' mean?

"They are so keen to pander to the politically correct ‘liberal’ wing of society that they have completely ignored the honest, hard working masses of tax payers who feel as though they suffer unfairly."

Perhaps. I think New Labour has won elections by making themselves palatable to the middle class. This hasn't got that much to do with the "politically correct 'liberal' wing of society" and more to do with economic policies that don't appear too left-wing. In the meantime, the people who usually quite like left-wing policies (the working class) have been neglected, since in the past their vote was taken for granted.

"PC gone mad" seems to be more of a rallying call from the right-wing press to attack a centre-left government without drawing too much attention to what really drives working-class anger - a lack of jobs, a lack of decent jobs, decent wages, secure employment etc.

Of course there are the usual claims of "coming over here, taking our jobs!" from a few (despite the lack of evidence to support this thesis) but actually whenever workers go out on strike, which they have been doing in quite high-profile cases recently, anger is directed not towards foreigners but to unscrupulous employers.

White working class racism certainly exists - but the BNP voters who are genuinely racist is probably miniscule. After all it's the working class who are more likely to have non-white friends and family.

"But there is a collision building between disenfranchised white workers and an ever more vocal extremist Muslim minority, who seek to impose their brand of Islam wherever possible. The murmurs about Shariah law have not gone away, and this is a huge problem."

How do they seek to impose their brand of Islam wherever possible? On who? On me? I didn't notice.

Sharia law should probably be rejected but I don't think having a debate about it is "a huge problem". Doesn't it already exist in some European countries? (Possibly America too, but don't quote me on that). Apart from that there already exists some kind of Jewish courts in Britain, doesn't there? Is that endangering the very fabric of our society?

"We need a zero tolerance policy, whereby any individual with a proven link or sympathy for a terrorist organisation is simply deported, without questions asked."

What, like, when I went to a march against the Israeli bombardment of the Gaza strip they should have deported all of those who showed support and sympathy with Hamas? (I mean, really, that would perhaps be 50,000 people out of the 100,000- just at that march).

What's Galloway done, or supposed to have done anyway? Was it money to Hamas, or Saddam Hussein? The Americans let him come to shout at them in Congress a few years ago. I don't think he should be arrested or anything.

Also - I think it was Sunny Hundhal (it might not have been) who wrote an article about the threat Britain (and all of our hard-working honest Jacks, Jacques and Jamals) faces from far-right extremists (on Liberal Conspiracy?) - apparently much higher than that from Muslim extremists.

I don't know, this article just seems to be a bit of a sop to a vocal, but small minority of fascistic nutjobs... Not to be rude, I just disagree. Quite a lot.

Jon Cruddas has some interesting things to say on the BNP and the white working class though.
Matt Wood

What does 'politically aware' mean?

Perhaps. I think New Labour has won elections by making themselves palatable to the middle class. This hasn't got that much to do with the "politically correct 'liberal' wing of society" and more to do with economic policies that don't appear too left-wing. In the meantime, the people who usually quite like left-wing policies (the working class) have been neglected, since in the past their vote was taken for granted.

"PC gone mad" seems to be more of a rallying call from the right-wing press to attack a centre-left government without drawing too much attention to what really drives working-class anger - a lack of jobs, a lack of decent jobs, decent wages, secure employment etc.

Of course there are the usual claims of "coming over here, taking our jobs!" from a few (despite the lack of evidence to support this thesis) but actually whenever workers go out on strike, which they have been doing in quite high-profile cases recently, anger is directed not towards foreigners but to unscrupulous employers.

White working class racism certainly exists - but the BNP voters who are genuinely racist is probably miniscule. After all it's the working class who are more likely to have non-white friends and family.

How do they seek to impose their brand of Islam wherever possible? On who? On me? I didn't notice.

Sharia law should probably be rejected but I don't think having a debate about it is "a huge problem". Doesn't it already exist in some European countries? (Possibly America too, but don't quote me on that). Apart from that there already exists some kind of Jewish courts in Britain, doesn't there? Is that endangering the very fabric of our society?

What, like, when I went to a march against the Israeli bombardment of the Gaza strip they should have deported all of those who showed support and sympathy with Hamas? (I mean, really, that would perhaps be 50,000 people out of the 100,000- just at that march).

What's Galloway done, or supposed to have done anyway? Was it money to Hamas, or Saddam Hussein? The Americans let him come to shout at them in Congress a few years ago. I don't think he should be arrested or anything.

Also - I think it was Sunny Hundhal (it might not have been) who wrote an article about the threat Britain (and all of our hard-working honest Jacks, Jacques and Jamals) faces from far-right extremists (on Liberal Conspiracy?) - apparently much higher than that from Muslim extremists.

I don't know, this article just seems to be a bit of a sop to a vocal, but small minority of fascistic nutjobs... Not to be rude, I just disagree. Quite a lot.

Jon Cruddas has some interesting things to say on the BNP and the white working class though.